Facebook Secrets! w/Mari Smith ‘Queen of Facebook’ ‘Are Followers Dead’ 😳 | Ep. 369

Jay: I am really, really excited. We have somebody here that I've had wanted to have on forever, ever. If you don't know Mari Smith, uh, I don't know what's wrong with you. She is to me and to everybody else regard as the queen. Facebook. Okay. She is no doubt one of the biggest social media people on the planet.

Jay: Fast company. Here's how they described her. You ready for this? Uh, a, a veritable engine of personal branding, a relationship marketing whiz and the Pied Piper of the online world. Forbes named Mari, one of the top social media influencers three years in a row. She is a big deal and what she's really known for is all things Facebook.

Jay: We are gonna get into it. This is gonna be amazing. Mari, welcome to the show.

Mari Smith: Hey Jay. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.

Jay: Yay. Um, all right, so before we get into some tips, tactics, quick wins on Facebook that, uh, you just are gonna crush it. Give everyone the quick rundown. Who's Mari, what do you do? How'd you become the queen of Facebook? I.

Mari Smith: I just loved it. Uh, I really thought it was a magical experience to be able to grow a community and to establish yourself as an authority on a subject. And I just, right away, within a few weeks, began to encourage people to get on. And it was way before there was ads or pages or groups or anything. I mean, it was just a radical improvement on, on, on MySpace.

Mari Smith: And so that was. Almost two decades ago, I can't even believe that. Uh, so the time's flown by. I love it. I'm mostly specialize in organic and I know just enough about ads to be dangerous.

Jay: Uh, it, well, you really have carved out a community of people that are trying to understand how to navigate Facebook. And by the way, we're gonna put it all in the show notes. We're gonna also mention at the end, but the social scoop Facebook group that you've started is so valuable because. You're always sharing the latest stuff.

Jay: So I wanna jump into the latest stuff and forever, and I wanna know your take on this, what we have all been chasing actually, regardless of platform, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, whatever is, I want more followers, 'cause more followers mean more eyeballs on my stuff. But is that still the North Star?

Jay: Are we still trying to grow our following?

Mari Smith: We could say followers are dead.

Jay: Ooh,

Mari Smith: I hate to say it so boldly, but that's something that Gary Vanerchuk would say. Um, honestly, it's, it's followers give us credibility. The more followers you have, it's just a perception that people think you're more important, period. Okay, great. We got that. However. The brilliant thing with the new rules of reach, how metas AI powered algorithms are working.

Mari Smith: It's really about the non followers. It's about creating amazing content, compelling hooks, great visuals, great message draws people in. First three seconds, you know, good thumbnails. That thing can go totally viral. It's now you've. Got to check your stats on both Facebook and Instagram. I mean, some other platforms might do it too, but, but for sure Facebook and Instagram.

Mari Smith: Looking at the, the, the little pie circle thing that shows you, okay, how many percent saw this that were your followers versus non followers, that is the litmus test. The more non followers you're reaching, the more the algorithms are like, wow, this is amazing content. Let's find a bigger and bigger and bigger audience for it.

Jay: So, okay. Followers are dead. Um, so what do I do? What does somebody do? They're like, listen. They're like, oh, great, I don't have a lot of followers, so now I can get my stuff out there pretty wide. Uh, I wanna get started doing this. What, how do I do that?

Mari Smith: Okay. I briefly hinted at it, and let's go deeper because here's the thing, if, if the algorithms are not picking up your content, it's probably 'cause your content's rubbish. Um, and the thing is, people don't really realize it. We get really close to our own stuff, but there's where like AI can come in, chat, GBT, whatever, to really help you to iterate and come up with.

Mari Smith: Better hooks or to, to, to dive deep into, you know, like perplexity or whatever, uh, or, um, answer the public, you know, also, it's great tools out there to, to what are the problems that your product or service is solving and, and, and you drop these little tidbits out there as your, your free, you know, top of funnel content for your socials.

Mari Smith: And so. Experimenting with the hooks, with the, the thumbnails, with maybe even the length if you're doing videos. Uh, big thing on Facebook recently is they've announced that all video posts are going to be reels that. Doesn't mean that you have to only do vertical. I strongly recommend you only do vertical on Instagram 'cause they don't have the rotation on Facebook.

Mari Smith: You can do the rotation of your phone. So you get now a nice full screen landscape player. Like you can do a YouTube or Netflix or whatever. So you might wanna experiment with some longer form video on, on Facebook. But the key is, you know, Jay, it's like what kind of content do people love? It's either educational.

Mari Smith: It's entertaining. You're like the king of memes, man. I could binge watch your Instagram content. It makes me laugh.

Jay: It's ridiculous. But let me ask you a question related to the, to all of that. Do you try to reverse engineer things? Meaning like, okay, I'm gonna look for viral templates, you know, carousel formats, viral video formats, viral whatever, and then say, I'm now I'm gonna make that in my voice in my way. Or do you just create stuff that you think kind of like checks a lot of the, okay, it's a good hook, it's a good visual, it's good, whatever.

Jay: Is reverse engineering the right plan?

Mari Smith: It can be, it can be for some people, like there's a gal on face on, uh, Instagram. I particularly appreciate Miss Caroline Flat, F-L-E-T-T. She's fun. She's fun to, she's like millions of followers. Okay, great. But her content is so on point. It's like a whole school on how to do Instagram. And so yeah, you could watch what she does and reverse engineer.

Mari Smith: That's never been for me personally. For my brand, I am more about imparting like, like cutting edge. News breaking down what, not news, but like specific to marketers, like how is a small business owner going to be able to capitalize on the fact that Facebook just made all videos in the reels format? Well, how does that affect them?

Mari Smith: What about groups? Should they even start a group? What about this thing? Now with personal profiles on Facebook, now there's a, I mean, it's been out for a couple years, but Facebook's really pushing it where you can convert your personal profile into what's called professional mode. I actually recommend that unless you're a super private person and you're only using your Facebook profile for, you know, friends and family, fine, keep it locked down.

Mari Smith: Don't open it up to to public followers. But Facebook loves to push that because it's really, um, it's like a public page for creators that can't be bothered with a page and only wanna stay on their personal profile.

Jay: So I, I'm, now I'm really curious about something. So let's say I'm, I'm listening to this. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna be posting more. I want to get it out there for my business, for me, my personal brand, whatever. Are you better off investing the energy in, to your point, a personal page that has a, I guess, a business profile or you better off.

Jay: Doing like a brand page on Facebook and trying to push there. Like, which one is, is better for you to put the energy behind? Or do you need to be doing both?

Mari Smith: So it's gonna really depend. If you are like a personality based brand, I would encourage you to, to lean into that. It's called professional mode. It's a toggle. You can turn it on and you get instant access to. What's called a professional dashboard, you're gonna see insights on all of your followers.

Mari Smith: They just lump all your friends into the followers on the personal profile. And then you also get the, the boost. You can run ads even on your personal profile. So if you are more of a personality based brand, you could totally do that. But if you are the, you have a business as a name that's not yours, I would strongly recommend.

Mari Smith: Also having the public page. Not only that with the public page business page, is that's really where you're gonna get access to Ads Manager and to really, um, you know, embrace the paid side of Facebook. It's because it's kind of more of a lightweight interface, just like the boost button on, on your personal profile in professional mode.

Jay: So is it harder to, let's say, go viral on a personal page versus a business page, or it doesn't matter?

Mari Smith: It, it's easier to, absolutely easier to go viral on a personal profile converted to professional mode because it's catering to the creator audience, which. Practically all these social networks, it's nothing about the creator economy. Every, the creator, I'll mention another name is, uh, Austin. Armstrong, good friend of mine.

Mari Smith: He has like, last I looked, he's closing in on 2 million followers on his personal profile. And, and he sometimes shares screenshots with me where he's got like, uh, a hundred percent non follower reach on a post with like 44 million views. And I'm like. But it's got like almost 2 million followers that put their hand up and said, yeah, I'm interested.

Mari Smith: And yet Facebook can still go out and find, you know, 44 million non followers. It's extraordinary.

Jay: So, all right, look, now I'm gonna ask something and I, uh, this is like a loaded question 'cause so on my Instagram page, which I'm just really getting going, I'm trying to figure it all out. I post some stupid memes, as you know. So I post this one stupid meme. And I was shocked. Ended up getting, you know, 4 million views.

Jay: I'm like, this is ridiculous. Now, at first I'm like, this is so cool. Look at all these new people and I got a lot of followers out of it, whatever. But the followers that I got were total trash. I mean, not trash. I'm sure they're good people. I, they've nothing to do with the ICP of my overall business. And I took a step back, I'm like.

Jay: What was the value in that going viral? So number one, going viral just to go viral. Is that a big fat waste of time? And do you really need to try to get a lot of reach and engagement from content that actually fits into what you do for a living? Or is there value in just getting like viral?

Mari Smith: Wow. I love this question, Jay. I, I think there's, my answer would be a kind of a qualified yes to both. Like you never know what the next piece of content is gonna go viral, quote unquote, right? But the thing is, I'm such a strategist. I'm always gonna think, okay, if this. Particular meme or whatever. I'm not a meme poster, but you know, I love your memes.

Mari Smith: Like I say, uh, adding into the CTA or even like in a, the first comment, if you want, you could do that Facebook or Instagram and, and just saying, setting up a chat bot and going like, DM me the word, you know, crazy meme and I'll send you my whatever. You're really good at that. I see you doing that on LinkedIn a lot, but it's like when people DM you and.

Mari Smith: Especially if you've got the automation set up and then you can pull them into an email list in a, in a funnel, then they're gonna kind of weed themselves out anyway. And you just never know when you're gonna pick up like a whole bunch of new, new, um, paying clients or whatnot. So yeah, I would say the eyeballs, all eyeballs are valuable.

Mari Smith: It's just that mm, we don't necessarily know if all I've seen is this. A meme and then, and then they'd kind of forget about you then. Yeah. It's not so much value, but the idea here is to, to really keep casting the net wider and wider to pull in who your ideal customers are.

Jay: So, alright. That was, that was very helpful. I, but I just heard you say something and now I gotta check in on this. So here it is. The queen of Facebook is here. And she just talked about the value of getting people off of these platforms and onto an email list. Are we saying that the queen of Facebook thinks that email data, email database growth is important?

Mari Smith: How am I gonna reach my audience? Well, hello. You should have maybe built your email list in the first place, and I'm, I'm in no judgment but. Fortunately, they're getting them back. The groups are coming back, but you gotta have a backup plan force instances like that. But not only that, email marketing, you gotta have this more intimate one-on-one conversation with people in their inboxes.

Mari Smith: Drive them to your offers.

Jay: And, and to your point, um, like when you're talking about your friend with the 44 million views and all, when you post something, um, who knows how many people are gonna see it that follow you? It's like a fraction now, right? Organic reach is like tiny, right?

Mari Smith: It is, it is. It's astonishing. Even when, when I post my own stuff, either Facebook or Instagram, I'm, I'm often amazed at how large the portion of non followers is. And that's kind of the name of the game now. And in fact, on Instagram, one way to do that to experiment is what they call trial reels, where your reel will only go out to non followers.

Mari Smith: It doesn't even show in your grid, and they go out and they try to find you an audience for about 24 hours. Brilliant. I mean, all this stuff is basically free except for the time it takes you to, to create the creative. Um, I believe, I predict, uh, that trial reels are going to come to Facebook sooner or later.

Mari Smith: Um, but just popping in my head was Gary V talking about how we've never had a situation like this in 20 plus years of, of, of social media marketing, 30 of online marketing where you can basically test creative at scale for low to no cost. Then you pick your winners. Then you turn those into the ads, now you start putting ads on, uh, you know, the, the most viral posts.

Jay: A hundred percent. No, I think that, um, testing out your reels has been become so valuable. And also the new app, their edits app in terms of Instagram coming out with their edits app, I think that that's been really, really cool. All right. I have a question though. Super random. So you have this very engaged.

Jay: Facebook group, the Social Scoop Facebook group. Everyone go and join Mari Smith's, MARI Smith, the Social Scoop Facebook group. But, um, and my wife's a dermatologist, so she's in these Facebook groups and, and she, they're just like, the greatest thing for her world or business, whatever. I don't do a lot in Facebook groups.

Jay: I should, but here's my question. Uh, is, is it too late? Let's say, okay, I wanna start a community. I think I'm gonna start as a Facebook group. Has that ship. Sailed. Would you say that is the place still to start a community of whatever it is about, or would you have, would you now today if Marty Smith was getting going?

Jay: No, I would do it here instead.

Mari Smith: Oof. I love this question too. I would say, you know, I'm kind of a both and person, so I would say yes on a Facebook group and potentially have another, like I have a platform on, uh, mighty Networks. We've got a few thousand people there. I launched a few years ago and, and I talk about some other different subjects.

Mari Smith: Um, but the Facebook group, here's the thing I'm gonna quote, uh, Gina Bianchini, she is the co-founder of Mighty Networks, and she did, she and her team did some studies, wanna see maybe last year. They found the number one predictor of the success of a community. It's not the leaders, not the topics, not the title.

Mari Smith: It's not the content you share, it's that members are connecting with each other. There's like this peer-to-peer connection and support and fortunately I have managed to create that in my social scoop. There's this incredible flywheel where I don't do a whole lot in there. I don't put force a lot of content.

Mari Smith: I engage in there. I have my team members engage. But generally speaking, people come back to that group day after day because they're getting help and support and sharing ideas. So that's the premise of what can really make a Facebook group work. And I see a lot of people struggle to get members and it's like, well, it's not clear what, why should I join your group?

Mari Smith: Right? Give me the big why first.

Jay: Yeah, the thing that I like about Facebook groups is that people already have the app on their phone. They already know how to use it, and so often there's so many of these applications and thingamabobs that may look really cool, but nobody wants to download something new. It, it's just a massive barrier to to entry.

Mari Smith: a hundred percent. Mm-hmm.

Jay: Alright. Alright, before we run outta time here, um, uh, first off, you people are gonna hear you have this beautiful accent. They're gonna think that you're living somewhere far away. But give everybody a rundown. The the Ma Smith story. Like where, where are you now? What's going on?

Mari Smith: I am in Ashland, Oregon on two acres with solar power and well water. And my neighbors are goats. I'm overlooking a lake. Um, yeah, I moved here about two years ago. Before that, 23 years I was in San Diego, California. Yay. And I was born in Canada to a hundred percent Scottish parents. So if you cut me open, my blood is tartan.

Mari Smith: So I, I'm fully Scottish, although I started out in Canada and, uh, I don't know. I. Say it was Scan Californian or something, but now I have to somehow weave Oregon in there and I have three passports. I'm very blessed to have triple citizenship and, uh, yeah, I, my, my passion project for five years now is studying the human design system.

Mari Smith: It's incredible fusion of astrology. The Chinese e ching. Great to. Really profoundly understand yourself. And I know about myself. I'm just a great experimenter. I love new things and trying out, you know, just experimenting what, what's gonna work today. I think that's why it's kept me on my toes with Facebook.

Mari Smith: 'cause it's, it's always, it's always, uh, changing. You know, it's the longest I've ever stuck with any one career.

Jay: Well, well you, your energy every time I've interacted with you in any way. Your energy is incredible. I'm a big fan of everything you do. I want you to tell everybody where can they find you on Instagram, Facebook, your groups. Tell everybody everything. 'cause everyone needs to get involved with your world.

Mari Smith: Thank you, I appreciate that. I'm pretty much Ma Smith anywhere. Uh, Instagram, Mari Smith and uh mari smith.com. And as like I say, you just Google me or chat GBT me or whatever the heck we say these days.

Jay: Yeah. And it's Mari MARI Smith. Um, and you, everyone please follow it and get involved with the social Scoop Facebook group. It's incredible. Mari, thank you so much for being here.

Mari Smith: Oh my pleasure.