EP. 32- LOVE IS BLIND Stars in YOUR Marketing??? Insider Scoop on Influencer Marketing w/ Courtney Bagby of Little Red Management l Expert Quick Tips

Welcome to do this, not that, the podcast for marketers. You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately.

You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins and pitfalls to avoid. Also, dig into life, pop culture and the chaos that is our everyday. I'm Jay Schwedelson. Let's do this, not that. We are here for do this, not that.

And we have a special guest. This is going to be amazing. We have Courtney Bagby here now. I'm going to let Courtney tell you her story. But who is Courtney and what does she do?

She.

She owns a company that is so cool. It is called Little Red Management. Why is it cool? No, it's not some sort of boring B2B software. They don't sell socks. None of this.

Her company that she's the founder of, they represent, they manage influencers and reality TV stars to get them brand partnerships. Yes, it's the influencer stuff. And we're going to find out today how that whole world works. Courtney, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Good. Thank you so much for having me. You just hyped me up and I love this. So I can't wait to answer all your questions.

So before we get into the secrets behind all of this influencer stuff, how did you wind up being who you are and doing what you do?

Oh my God. It is such a long story, Jay, but I will try to give you the shorter version.

Chris Souls was on at that time and those girls were really the first girls really got a following from the pic from that show and I was over always so intrigued. I studied advertising in college. Instagram had came out two years before and I want to work for these people. They're doing brand deals.

How does this all work? What's going on? All the things. And I started doing a lot of informational interviews trying to slide into people's DMS to figure out how it worked.

Fast forward a few years. I worked in tech for a couple years.

I, while doing that would still slide into some of my favorite people's DMS and ask them if I could do their media kit and honestly volunteer and figure out just how to befriend them and work with them. And I ended up moving down to LA a year later.

So after a year, I left and started Little Red Management, where I just wanted to work with reality TV stars. And because that's what I knew, those are the shows that I liked. So I think I started my company with less than 10 people.

And we are here today, and I manage over probably about 30 people exclusively and have access to a lot of talent from just over the years of befriending and being in the industry and meeting people in LA and all the things. So I feel like that's sort of how I got here.

And I will tell you, I know Courtney because there were some reality stars that we were trying to bring on board for an event that we were doing, and they were like, you got to go to Courtney. She's the one that knows everybody, that reps all the right people. And it's true.

You have a roster of, like, when you're watching anybody that's listening, when you're watching A Bachelor or you're watching Love is Blind, you're watching any of those reality shows and you're wondering, how are these people making any money? Because when you're on the show, you're like, what do they actually do for a living?

Well, after the shows are over, they build up their following, and Courtney is the one working out all these brand deals. That's her gig. So let me ask you a couple questions, because I'm super curious about all this. So how does it work?

I come up with a new energy drink, and I want to get the word out. Do I come to you and say, hey, I got this energy drink. I got $50,000, and who could I have do stuff? And what do I get for that?

How many social posts or which platforms? I mean, how does it work?

Yeah. So I would say, for the most part, Jay, and there's so many different ways that campaigns come to life and happen.

But I will say, a lot of the times, I feel like in your situation that you just described right now, typically I would even refer that person to an agency, a digital marketing agency, to come up with the whole creative and their campaign goals. Because typically, when you're coming to me, you already know what sort of deliverables you want and what sort of talent you want.

And I feel like that can get confusing.

I think sometimes people can come to me and an energy drink can come to me and say, I have $50,000, but they need to come up with some sort of deliverables. Like, hey, I need a real. A story set, which is typically three to five frames of 15 seconds each.

And they'll say, I have 50K, but I want 10 creators, but I'll send them 20 people. That would make sense. Let me know who your favorites are and we can get creative.

But a lot of the times I do feel like agencies already come to me being like, here's what we're looking for and can you send me people that fit that? If that makes sense.

Gotcha. And is $50,000 for a reality person. Is that a lot? Is that a little.

If you have a small company and you want to get it out there with one of these reality people, I mean, what is the ballpark range for working with one of them?

Yeah, so I think it depends on, you know, do you have a hundred thousand followers or do you have 2 to 5 million followers from reality TV?

Like, do you want to do maybe 50 posts with people that have a hundred thousand followers, or do you want to do one post or two posts with a big creator?

So I think that that's kind of the difference anywhere from if you have a million to 5 million followers, you might be looking at 10 to $50,000 for an Instagram post versus if you're working with someone with a hundred thousand, you might be looking at like 1k ish. So the rule of thumb that I usually say is per 100,000 followers, maybe an in feed post is a thousand, two thousand.

But it really depends on the campaign goals. Like, do they just want a bunch of content so they can put paid media behind it? There's so many different things. Is it part of a press tour?

Do they want the name to be well known? And do interviews involve. There's so many different sows. So it's like statement of work.

There's so many different sows that each brand and agency will come to me with. So the statement of work could be an in feed post or an appearance somewhere or whatever, but I'll always start there. So what's the deliverables?

What are they doing? What is the work you're hiring them for?

Let's have a big brand, okay? And I come to you and say, I'm interested in this reality person who's really hot because they were just on this show, whatever.

But the brand has very specific brand guidelines, right? They're like, they can't say this. They can't go out of the lane. They got to stay here. They got to Stay on point.

Is that part of your world, or do most of your creators, most of your influencers, do whatever you want to do?

No. So that's, I think, the misconception and sort of a myth of content creators in general.

We are given, not necessarily a script, but we call them a brief or talking points for a brand of things that. That my client needs to make sure to hit in their video, whatever it is, which video content is kind of where it's at now.

So there's so many different things that they have to hit.

And really, at this point, I would honestly say in the last six months, Jay, it's sort of turned to this thing where we almost have write up a script and get that approved from the brand and the creative concept before even filming. I would say before, when I first started my company about four years ago, it was, here's the talking points, Go run with it. Go do your own thing. Now.

I think there's just so many legal things with it over the years of, like, making sure you're using the right music that, you know, doesn't have licensing issues, and making sure you don't have artwork behind you, because all those are, you know, someone's art that a brand could get in trouble for.

There's so many different things that, like, sometimes down to, you know, I have to send a photo of what my client's gonna wear or where they're shooting and what's behind them. It's getting more and more serious and kind of ends up being like an actual shoot, you know, so.

So along those lines. So do you have to acknowledge that it's an ad?

So when the influencer posts something, is there that little statement that this is an ad, or does it have to be delineated that it's an ad?

Yeah. So legally, anything, even gifted, Jay, at this point is technically supposed to be hashtag gifted. There are FTC guidelines.

That's what they're called in social media. And they have to.

And they have to put hashtag ad, hashtag sponsored are the two things they have to let people know that it's an ad, which hurts our engagement, too.

Let me ask you just. Yeah. I'm curious, and maybe you can't answer this, but I watch every reality show. Okay.

And I would say a solid 75% of the people that go on these shows seem they're lacking in a career. And I'm always curious how somebody commits to going on.

When you commit to going on the Bachelor or the Bachelorette, you're committing potentially three Months or whatever it is of not working because you're stuck in the Bachelor mansion or whatever it is. It's almost like, what type of career do you got that you could just take a three month pause? Because I can't do that.

I don't know if you could do that.

And so are these people in your experience going on the shows with their plan to be to hire you and that's going to be their long term play to make money? I mean, is that the plan?

I love this question so much because I feel like I never really think of it that, you know, oh, are they just quitting their jobs or are they taking time off work or what's going on? How are they getting that much time off? I mean, one of my clients on Bachelor in Paradise is a nurse. That's.

Wait, how did she take off three months, she's still a nurse, so clearly they didn't get rid of her. But you do have to wonder. I would say, Jay, I know this from first experience.

If their jobs will not let them take a break, they will quit and find a new job or career change afterwards. I don't know. Especially for men, I will say, if their job is to want to, which I would think is stupid, to be honest.

If they did just quit and think that they're going to become a content creator after. Absolutely not.

I think that the men that do well in this industry are actually working full time and make time for social too, because I just think that those are the ones that end up being the most successful for some reason. Just not totally doing content all day, but just add a little bit if they're doing finance or something.

At least it's something else than just lifestyle and Bachelor, you know, okay, so.

It'S a very strong side hustle, but you're not gonna be Mr. Beast by going on Love is Blind.

I would say, especially now, Jay, I feel like the, the creators now are not getting the following like they used to. I mean, if you were to ask me this question five years ago, I would think 100.

A lot of those bachelor people are going on in hopes of being a creator, but I don't know about now. I just don't see it as much. And people will ask me, do you think that I can quit my full time job and make a hundred K from social after?

And I go, honestly, yes, but you have to be dedicated. It's a career change for them at the end of the job day.

This is a job like you cannot expect to work part time and post on social media once a week and make full time money. Right. It's just not going to happen.

So if you're going to go into it and you're okay, because a lot of people do come off reality TV and social media is very overwhelming for them and I'm sure you could imagine all of a sudden getting a million followers when you have nothing is hard on them, you know, and you, it's a whole career change.

So if you can't get into that routine of okay, let me wake up my, my full time content creators that are really successful in this business, they are waking up every day at 8am, 9am, working on content all day long, then editing, then posting, then interacting with their fans, then answering DMs, then doing it all again and work 12 hour days. And they're making really good money on social media but they do it full time.

It's a job, it's, it's, it's a hustle for sure.

Yeah.

So that was super interesting. So let me, let's jump into this last segment of this podcast called since you didn't ask, this is where we.

I'm not going to ask you work questions now. I want you to put on your regular person hat, your reality TV watching hat that I also wear, okay?

Because in order to do your job effectively, you need to consume a lot of reality tv. Is that a fair statement?

Yes. And that's why I got into the industry. Are you kidding? I just can't wait for all the shows that come out every night.

So let me ask you a question. Okay? So now as we're recording this, we are about to head into what's called hometowns of the Golden Bachelor.

Let me just set the stage and I need your opinion. Golden Bachelor, 72 year old dude, Gary spelled Jerry. He's got three women left, okay.

And they're going to each of their homes, meeting their families and all this stuff. First of all, are you, do we like the Golden Bachelor? How do you feel about Gary spelled Jerry? What's up?

First of all, I think it's hysterical because I don't think I knew it was Gary still. I'm probably still calling him Jerry, but I honestly am super into it.

I didn't know what I would think and one night I just caught up on all four episodes or whatever that was out and I'm obsessed, my husband's obsessed. Like we both love it. Honestly. I have a bachelor watch party that I actually.

So all my friends in la, you're gonna laugh at this, Jay, but I feel like you'll love it, too. My friends in la, I met the group of girls that I hang out with from a Bachelor Facebook podcast group. So I have a group of seven of us.

We're all really good friends now. We all watch Bachelor together and chat about. You should be in this group. Chat. You would love it because all we do is talk Bachelor things.

Everyone loves Golden Bachelor. Some of my group has don't even watch Bachelor anymore or Bachelor in Paradise, but Golden Bachelor is a hit.

Everyone that I ask that doesn't even watch it is watching it. So I love it. I definitely am not gonna lie. Sometimes when they're kissing and stuff, like, makes me feel a little type of way and. God.

But like, maybe not oversharing sometimes. It depends on the person.

Well, let me. Okay, so let me ask. First of all, by the way, it's ironic you've gained friends by watching the Bachelor.

I've lost the majority of my friends because they're. What is wrong with you? And that's fine. I'm trying to lose people anyway because I don't like going out. So it's perfect.

But here's the question I want to ask, and I will then replay this for you in a few weeks. We'll see if you. What you thought happened.

So on the Bachelor, Golden Bachelor, they have this thing called fantasy suites, which is with the last remaining people. They do an overnight. He does an overnight with each of the women, and stuff happens in the rooms. Right.

I don't know if they're going to do a fantasy suite for the Golden Bachelor because I'm like, is that really going to happen?

They will.

You think it's going to happen? That's what I want to know.

Yes, yes, yes.

They're gonna.

Yeah. Because either way, Jay, it is the only time I'm confident, but I don't actually have facts. But I'm confident. No, No, I don't.

But I think that my number one thing is it's their only time to talk throughout the whole series, just one on one without cameras. So I can't imagine that they would cut that because that's so.

But you don't think they're gonna get it on necessarily. Like, you don't. You don't know if Gary's gonna go to town. We don't know.

I mean, I honestly kind of would hope so.

I hope so.

I mean, he needs to know. For the rest of his 10, 20, 30.

Night.

Like, he needs to know, but I don't. I mean, look, he's going to hometowns with three of them. Right.

So I'm gonna imagine that he's only gonna do fantasy suites with two of them and maybe it's just gonna be their last date and they get to spend the night.

You've heard the prediction here we have Courtney's professional prediction. All right, speaking of professional stuff, Courtney, before we wrap up, how do people find you get access to all these people?

How do they track you down?

Yeah. So you can find me at Courtney Bagby on Little on Little Red Management. I was going to say on Instagram.

And you can find a Little Red management on Instagram too. And you can see some of the cool campaigns that we've been doing and some new clients whenever we onboard more.

All the fun things, honestly, even social media tips. So I highly recommend if you're going to follow anything to follow Little redmgmt on Instagram. You can also email me if you have any questions.

Courtneyittleredmanagement.com is that's usually the best way to get a hold of me.

Amazing. And by the way, I'll give the recommendation.

I've used Courtney's company, they've been terrific to find talent and this has been super awesome and I can't wait to go back and forth after. After all the Golden Bachelor episodes. So, Courtney, thank you for being on do this, not that.

Of course. Thank you for having me.

You did it. You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over.

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