Ep. 166 – PODCAST About PODCASTING? 📻 ===> GUEST: Mike Montague, Head of Franchise Strategy at SANDLER (His Podcast Has Over 3.5 Million DOWNLOADS!) + LEGOs!! Yup LEGOs!!

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Welcome to do this, not that, the podcast for marketers. You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately.

You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins, and pitfalls to avoid. Also, dig into life, pop culture, and the chaos that is our everyday. I'm Jay Schwedelson. Let's do this, not that.

We are here for do this, not that, presented by Marigold. And we. We have a guest. He is my buddy. He is smart, he is funny. He is sort of cool. Maybe not cool. I'm not sure who is here.

First of all, we're going to be talking about podcasting. I mean, this is going to be wild. But who is here is Mike Montague. He is the head of franchise strategy at Sandler.

If you don't know Sandler, it's one of the biggest sales training organizations on the planet. And this dude's a big important dude over there.

And he's also the host of how to Succeed, one of the most known and listened to and downloaded podcasts on planet Earth. I'm super stoked to have him here. We Mike, welcome to do this, not that Jay.

A podcast about podcasting. Exactly what the world needs. We did it. I appreciate all those compliments. The only thing you didn't include was great hair.

I feel like you're winning in the hair category, but I appreciate that.

You look good, my man. Very handsome man. You have to see the video.

All right, so before we get into podcasting, and the reason that we're going to talk to Mike about podcasting is this dude has put out 650 episodes of his podcast. I don't know many other people on Earth that could say that. So we're going to dig into what that all means.

But before we get into that, Mike, how did Mike become Mike? What is your story?

That is a very long question. Because I like you, I'm somebody that likes to do a lot of things, sometimes all at once. So I kind of weave together three themes.

My dad actually bought a Sandler training location in Kansas City here where I am when I was a junior in high school.

So I am one of the few high school students that got professional sales training and started listening to books and tapes on selling before I ever had anything to sell. And so I was a sort of a student and a client first and then became a trainer with him and then moved to our corporate team.

And it's been about almost 30 years of Sandler now on the other side of things. I started designing websites and I was a computer nerd in high school.

And it's not very impressive now, but in the late 90s, being able to design websites was a rare skill.

So I started doing that, did it for the Kansas City Chiefs Radio network, bunch of other big companies and stuff, have designed over 200 websites and got into Internet marketing in the 90s. And then the third story is I didn't want to be a computer nerd. I wanted to be cool. I wanted to be a deejay and on the radio and stuff.

And I got my own show on the top 40 radio station here in Kansas City, Mix 93.3. And I was Romeo. That's in my background over here as well. But was Romeo on the radio in my 20s and, and got to have a. A bunch of fun doing that.

But then I finally, with Sandler, got to tie all of these together and I host a podcast, which is like Internet marketing with radio broadcasting about sales training. And it really ended up to kind of be the dream scenario for me. So I started that show eight years ago.

And it's been, yeah, over 650 episodes weekly, over 3.5 million downloads, and in the top 1% of business, podcasts. So really, really great fun run where I've gotten to meet a cool people like yourself.

Well, Romeo. No, I'm kidding. I might call you Romeo for the rest of our, like, working, you know, as I know you, throughout the years, I'm gonna call you Romeo.

And the Romeo wasn't because I'm cool or anything. My last name is Montague. So Romeo Montague, Like Montagues and Capulets.

Yeah, nobody hears that. Cultured. So sorry. All right, so let's talk about podcasting, right? You've done literally a zillion episodes. All this different type of stuff.

Sell me on why podcasting is important. Why should anybody have a podcast? Do you need to be like a big brand like Sandler to have one? Break it down.

Whole bunch of stuff to unpack here. We can go in any direction you want. First thing I would say is you have to have some sort of regular creation process.

So if podcasting is not your thing, you're. You think you have a weird voice or something, skip it. Don't do podcasting. Create videos and use an AI voice to put over it.

Or do write a blog, send your email newsletter. You can Write books and other long form stuff. But I think the act of creation for me is the number one reason to do anything.

It's building my authority. Weekly I have something to share on LinkedIn. I'm getting to talk and meet people.

I am repurposing that content into a ton of other things like video shorts, into blog posts. I'm using interviews to promo for other events that I have. I'm interviewing prospects and stuff too. So I come from the sales training background.

And if anybody's a small business owner or even just in marketing, you want a nice trick, nobody says, hey, Jay, you want to have a 30 minute sales call with me later? No, thanks.

Can I interview you on my national podcast about what you're doing in your business and maybe some of the challenges and, and cool things that you have going on over there? Yes. Almost nobody says no to being a podcast guest.

So it's a free sales interview that you just do live and you air for people, but you're still getting to meet and talk to them.

And so when I look at podcasting, for me it's just this like, lynchstone linchpin cornerstone behavior that drives all of the other activities in sales and marketing.

So how hard is it to do a podcast? Okay, great. Mike inspired me. I'm going to try to do this. Is it hard? Do you need expensive equipment? Do you need to know how to do video editing?

Like, is it hard to have a podcast?

I know you know the answer to this, so it's funny telling you this because we make it look so damn easy, but it's as hard as you want to make it, right?

Plug it into your computer and use a webcam or your laptop cam and you can start a show.

I don't know if we endorse tools in here and stuff, but Buzzsprout is where I host my podcast and it's 18amonth for the package of three hours of recording that I do a week. That's pretty easy to get started. 45 bucks down and 18 bucks a month.

I'm glad you said that because it's so true. It is so easy to do. It costs you almost nothing. And I'll tell you, when I started the podcast, I started it out interviewing people and that was it.

That Was the only episodes I did were guest interviews. And I quickly was like, I suck at this. I'm not like Barbara Walters. And then now I release a bunch of episodes.

The majority of what I release is solo episodes because I'm like, I'm way better at just talking than I am at and interviewing people. I only say that because don't you agree that you should find your lane?

What your comfort thing is you don't need to sound like other people, you just need to sound like. Like you. Right?

Absolutely. So there's a whole ton to unpack here. Now the type of show is completely different.

So yes, if you're better at talking than listening, you should probably do a monologue podcast or create something.

Right.

I came from a radio background where I can do that and I'm comfortable talking in front of a camera and, and I always find something to say. But I'm also somebody that I think is better at putting other people in the spotlight. So I'm curious. I want to ask a lot of questions.

I love to learn. I have this just insane. I read books, I watch podcasts, I'm on YouTube videos. I'm not wasting a whole lot of time.

I want as much information as I can get.

So my curiosity to learn from other people made me create a guest show where I could kind of collect best practices and then share those out with the audience. And for me it is also a reproducible format. So I have three standard questions I ask every guest and it makes it real easy for me.

Anybody can show up and I'm going to ask them the attitudes that it takes to be successful, the behaviors, the goals, plans and actions you got to do and then any tips, tools, techniques or hacks that they use in order to be successful, regardless of the topic. And those three questions created a structure that I could do 650 interviews and never get the same answers on any of those questions.

You know, it's nice about a lot.

Of people try to make this really hard and they want to over produce something or I have to get a celebrity or I have to write this script out and I'm going to do this hour long produce thing. It's like no, you can show up and just say what's on your mind, treat it like an audio blog and in diary and share it yourself.

Or you can create a structure of a show that's sustainable, that's super easy for you and you're talking to people you want to talk to and you get excited about it. I know both you and I get excited for the people we get to meet.

Totally. Yeah, 100%. I mean, a lot of ways we met via, you know, podcasting, right? You get to meet a lot of really interesting people.

And I think the biggest thing that I've learned out of podcasting, and whether it's an email newsletter that you're putting out, a blog, a podcast, whatever it is, being consistent, right? Showing up and not missing a week of any of what you're putting out there.

Because if you're trying to build a connection with the people that are engaging with your stuff, you need to be reliable or else forget it. Don't even, don't even go there. I mean, is consistency baked into your life?

100%. And for me, there's even added benefits beyond that.

Just for myself, like, I know that I have to show up, I have to shave, put a nice shirt on, put myself together and show up and be ready to talk to somebody once or twice a week. And that for me, sometimes it just changes your attitude. So I had a hernia surgery a week ago and I did a podcast the next day.

And I put myself together, took enough pain meds to stand upright and interview somebody. And just that act of things allowed me to recover mentally from that. That like, oh, I'm still here, I'm still talking to somebody.

But outside of that, the stuff you mentioned for the business is huge. That once you've done it for eight years, people go, this person's not going away. They're an expert in their field.

So when I started on day one, maybe they don't buy into me or they're listening for other things and stuff, but when you do this regularly, day in, day out, they know that you're gonna be there.

And especially for things that require long term attention, like marketing or sales support or anything that you're going to have to do over and over again. They want somebody who's reliable, that they can trust, that is an expert in their field.

And it really helps build your credibility and your unique value with them because you're going to be different than everybody else out there. It's not willing to do it.

So let me ask you, what are like some things that like, you kind of wish you knew before you start your podcast or thing pitfalls to avoid? Like, listen, if you're gonna have a podcast, just don't do these three things.

I've been there, done that, those are garbage and that'll be the end of you.

Three things come to mind. Number one is don't try to Fake it and be something you're not.

So copying somebody else's podcast or if you know that it's a real struggle for you to do a 20 minute monologue, don't set your podcast up to be a 20 minute monologue.

Right? Make it.

It should be easy and fun for you. When you lean into the stuff that fits your personality, your style, the stuff that you want to do, you show up and do it.

You gotta work really hard to book guests or to figure out something that's not in your swing zone. It just isn't sustainable. It becomes work instead of a play for you.

I think the other things are similar for me, but around technology, like don't set yourself up for a schedule you can't keep up with or an incredible crazy technical setup and, and stuff that just turns it in to a grind.

The third thing, which I think I would love to hear more about you and, and stuff that you do and talk about in list building and stuff is instead of trying to make a podcast for an audience, I think it's easier to be authentic in yourself and then find the people that want that. So I do have a target sort of Persona in mind or I'm making this podcast for a reason and for somebody and some impact I want to make in the world.

But I don't worry about the people that complain about it or it's just not for them. You know, if they don't like my style.

I'm not going to try to change my show to be something that other people like because then I'm not going to like it and I'm not going to be attracting ideal clients for myself. I'm going to be attracting ideal clients who want somebody else and then it falls apart and it doesn't work for.

Lead gen. Yeah, I know. I totally agree with that.

I think that when you have people that, I know this sounds so weird that are turned off to your content, you almost need that to also have people that are really into your content. Because if it's too down the middle, then you're just like, nobody's going to care. Right? You need to, you need to have.

It has to have a personality, has to have a vibe. It's not going to be for everybody. And that's A good thing, but it's going to be for a population of people. So I think that that is spot on.

All right, before. Before we run out of time, I want to move into the.

The crazy portion of this podcast called, since you didn't ask, this is we talk about things have nothing to do with business or whatever. And I could be wrong, but I feel like in my brain I remember you telling me you are like, like a LEGO champion or something. LEGO craziness related.

Do I have that right?

Yes. I am LEGO serious play certified as an instructor.

What does that mean? What does that mean?

I went through like a three day class to learn how to teach adults how to play with lego.

It's so dumb that as adults we forget how to play and have fun, but we really start adulting and taking ourselves too seriously and we forget that we just can screw around with stuff. But there's some really cool things about Lego. And if you're watching the video, you would not be surprised about this.

There's about, I don't know, six, seven, eight different legos in my background here. But so much of our world is two dimensional these days. It's on a sheet of paper, we're on a flat screen.

Like, it's just not thinking in the same way that we do in real life.

And so meeting people, and I love sales calls, networking, you know, getting out and meeting people in real life is great, and that's the three dimensional space. But I think with podcasts and with Lego, there's also this special bit of LEGO magic.

When you make a kit or you make something out of it, there's a story around it too. And that's. The fourth dimension is like, what does this mean to you? What is it like telling? What is it expressing about yourself?

Why did you pick the color of that brick? Why did you make that shape? Or why do you. Why did you put the hat on, the minifigure or whatever? It just becomes a really interesting dynamic.

And I love the whole idea of just making something with your hands, keeping it busy. You're telling a story. You're making something from nothing and you have something to show for it.

Okay, I want to, let's say. Okay, great, you're going to now teach me. You like, you have to teach me how to play with legos. What the hell does that mean?

I mean, I'll be sitting next to you and you're going to be like, all right, Jay, take the red one and make a car. Like, what the hell does that mean?

A few different things. And this is great. It's really fun. I love that you're. You're laughing about it. People do stink at this.

When LEGO made kits and they said, follow these instructions and build something, their sales skyrocketed when they were selling just boxes of different colored bricks and different sizes. People struggle to create something out of nothing and, and to figure out what to build. So people love following instructions. That's.

Step number one is like, build a duck. Yes. Take this orange brick. Make it the feet. Put a yellow thing on top of it. You got another orange thing for the. The beak.

And we're going to teach you how to build something following instructions. That's one of it. The second stage is building something out of your mind.

So out of these bricks that we put in front of you, build a metaphor for your company culture.

Wow.

Right? And that's a lot. That's a big jump, right? But all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay, this is a different thing. This is a story. This is an expression.

And we give you really cool specific pieces where you're like, oh, okay, there's a big dragon over here. That's that boss we don't like. And there's a, you know, a calm waters over here on this side.

And, and that represents the, the our home office or whatever. And you're like, oh, okay, that makes sense too. Then the third level is connecting stuff.

So LEGO is really cool because you can connect and change different pieces or you can break it down and rebuild.

And I think so many people as adults, we forget, we think it's like, pass, fail, or when we're making artwork or we're on a sales call or we're writing an email newsletter that it's done or we can't change it and fix it. And so the third step of that is breaking it down and instead change that metaphor into a heaven or hell version of that thing you just built.

And so you learn that you can change and you can grow and you can build new stuff and add on to your story that you already created, and it becomes a really cool process.

Well, I will tell you without question, that was the deepest conversation I've ever had about Legos. And I could pretty much guarantee it's the deepest conversation I will ever have about legos. So I'm very excited about this.

I also, at some point in my life, I want to go to Legoland with you because I feel like you're. Your head might pop off your shoulders. But before we run out of time, in the Podcast. How does everyone get involved with you? How do they follow you?

How do they find your podcast? We're going to put it all in the show notes, but tell everybody how to get involved in Mike's Romeo's world.

Yeah, Mike Montague on LinkedIn is the easiest way to connect with me. That's my preferred social media channel. Pro tip too. I, I think for me is just pick one, pick one that you like and, and direct everybody there.

So I do publish other things in the podcast on all the channels. So find how to succeed. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you're listening to this one right now. Search in the app you're using, find how to succeed.

Give that a listen. That's for Sandler. We're the world's largest sales training and management customer success training company in the world.

Train about 50,000 people a year with in 200 and some locations now. Whole bunch of languages and things around the world too, which is super fun. Sandler.com for more information on that.

And then if you want to have fun in the Lego thing, side note, again, you can connect with me or playfulhumans.com is what I do. And I have a little podcast there where I interview people that play for a living, like rappers, voiceover artists, magicians, jugglers, whatever.

That's a little fun side project for me.

I love it all now. Mike's a great dude. You got to connect with him on LinkedIn. We'll put it in the show notes.

Definitely listen to his podcast and go and play with some Legos. I mean, what are you listening to this for? Mike, thanks for being here, man. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me on. That was fun.

All right, you did it.

You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over.

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